[SEL] List Maners

Jerry Evans jerrye at databak.co.za
Fri Jul 31 14:45:06 PDT 2009


At 06:00 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:52:26 +1000
>From: "Kerry" <ozengine at optusnet.com.au>
>Subject: [SEL] List Maners
>
>G'Day All
>
>Question in general, is there a increasing lack of people getting involved
>in discussion where help is asked.
>
>know I have been there on both sides, and it is frustrating in not getting
>an answer (specially English Crossley and National questions).
>My thoughts on reasons.
>1. I know little or nothing about a particular engine but will wait for an
>answer to increase my knowledge.
>2. I don't care, I don't have that engine so just delete the post
>3. others know better so let them answer (they have in the past).
>4. last time I tried to help, I jot blasted by others, so stuff it.
>5. last time I tried to help I got no reply so not wasting my time again,
>6. I only read the list and seldom post even if I could help.
>7. I don't like him so will not answer.
>I know No5 gets up my nose, as I get a lot of questions off list, and after
>digging data out and replying get no answer, I would say now 50% cannot be
>bothered to even thank you.
>These lists were set up to help others are we losing that.
>Your thoughts
>Kerry Morris
>Lithgow NSW Oz

Hi Kerry and Peter,
         (Be prepared for a marathon answer.)
         Very interesting and relevant thread - sorry I'm only coming in at 
the end but I only get the "Digest version" of SEL and by that time there 
are already many answers (and sometimes the thread is already dead).

         As most you know, I'm still a newbie to both engine 
collecting/restoring and the lists (it's only been about 5 years - many of 
you have been here from the beginning) and I do not even have any really 
"glamorous" engines like many of you do but I love my engines and the hobby 
and the people I've met through it.

         Yes the lists (SEL & Oldengine) are getting quieter and places 
like "Smokstak" are livelier (sp.?) but I will never leave these 2 lists 
for the simple reason that I have made so many friends on them (even if 
we've never met in person) and have learnt so much from the members.
         Being a newbie I cannot answer many of the questions asked so 
obviously will not reply but that does not mean that I do not read each and 
every post. When I find one that I can offer an answer to I do so immediately.

         On the other hand, when I ask questions I get lots of help from 
guys who are far more experienced than me and I appreciate each and every 
one. I also try my best to write back and say "Thanks" to everyone 
(sometimes all in 1 post).

         Now, at the risk of being "flamed". Peter (Ogborne) you were the 
first person who flamed me (probably deservedly) on this list but I think 
that we overcame that and I consider you to be a friend today so allow me 
to say this. Peter, you posted a question about an Aussie made engine and 
got no replies. Well, don't blame the list, most of us know very little 
about Aussie engines (I know a little about my Ronnie N and it's a great 
little engine but that's all I know about Aussie engines -O.K. I've also 
got an Aussie Southern Cross AC <Wolseley copy made in South Africa - never 
Aus> A Southern Cross aircooled diesel and 2 Moffat Virtues awaiting 
restoration) but even if someone posted a question about the Moffats I 
would not be able to answer as I have not worked on them yet. That's 
probably why you got no answers - nobody, on this list, knew the answer. 
Yes, you are right, most of the "active" members on this list are Yanks. 
Aus has a few "active" members (at a guess I'd say less than 10), Britain 
has probably less than 5 "active" members and then there's me in South 
Africa and 1 guy in New Zealand. (Note the "quotes" - I mentioned "active" 
members - not lurkers.)
         I've also posted the odd question and not had an answer but that 
is very definitely in the minority. I have received unbelievable help from 
members of these lists and in many cases that help has gone much further 
than simply answering an email.
         You Aussies helped me tremendously when I restored the Ronnie N, I 
had a manual posted to me, someone else posted me an original muffler at no 
charge (when I saw the cost of postage I felt very guilty and wrote 
offering to at least reimburse him for that - he refused), I had drawings, 
a Ronaldson & Tippet Centennial Brochure, decals, Aussie flags and more 
posted to me. Of course I could also never forget that it was Reg who, 
following a request to the lists, actually found the engine for me. and set 
the whole thing in motion. Today, that little Ronnie N has a very special 
place in my collection (and my heart). Without these lists and their 
members that would never have happened. I have great appreciation for all 
the help I received.
         Then when I restored the Wolseley Type "R" (most of the surviving 
engines are in Aus) I had just as much help from Aussie members. Again, 
only because I had "met" them on these lists.

         More recently I needed to buy some coils from ebay for a Maytag 
and put an urgent plea out to the lists for help. The response was 
overwhelming - I'm not mentioning names (you all know who you are) but so 
many members offered their help - this to a stranger - I just could not 
believe that people could be so ready to help. These guys were all from the 
USA. (Yanks as we so lovingly call them). Thanks to you all. (Arnie and 
Dave -shuddup :-)

         Peter, do not take what I've said as a rebuke - these are just my 
feelings about these lists and their members. I think that they are the 
most helpful and friendly bunch of guys (and girls) around.
         O.K. that sorts out my answer to Peter.
Now to Kerry,
(Your question.) "Question in general, is there a increasing lack of people 
getting involved
in discussion where help is asked. know I have been there on both sides, 
and it is frustrating in not getting an answer (specially English Crossley 
and National questions)."

(My answer): Yes I believe there is but have no answer as to why this is 
so. Maybe it is because there are more specialised forums dealing with 
particular makes of engines or problems (like Smokstak) where you can post 
a question or start a new thread and only those people who have the 
knowledge or experience of that particular engine or problem will respond.
         Regarding Crossley and National - bear in mind that most of these 
went to the British colonies - and Aus probably has more "survivors" than 
even Britain - there cannot be too many in the USA - Britain must still 
have quite a few (but these lists do not have many "active" British 
members), South Africa has a few but most of our collectors who have 
engines like that are "Old Farts" who are not members of the "computer age" 
and do not participate in lists like this.
(Your other questions answered below - as I see the answers)
"My thoughts on reasons."
1. I know little or nothing about a particular engine but will wait for an
answer to increase my knowledge.
(My answer). Probably "Yes". There are many posts to the lists about 
engines that were never seen in South Africa (or elsewhere) but I always 
read them and learn. I cannot participate in the discussion.

2. I don't care, I don't have that engine so just delete the post.
(My answer). Similar to the last answer except that I never delete engine 
post - it goes into a mailbox called "Engine Stuff" for later reference if 
needed. If the question relates to an engine that I do not know but maybe 
know of someone who owns a similar engine then I will watch the thread and 
if answers are not forthcoming then I will offer to ask the guy that I know.

3. others know better so let them answer (they have in the past).
(My answer) Yes, if I cannot add to the thread then how can I answer.

4. last time I tried to help, I jot blasted by others, so stuff it.
(My answer) Hard one to answer - why did you get blasted? If I can add any 
value I will answer.

5. last time I tried to help I got no reply so not wasting my time again,
(My answer) Yes that happens and it's very bad manners not to say "Thanks" 
and I agree with you - but it's not the "list", it's just one bad mannered 
member.(see further down)

6. I only read the list and seldom post even if I could help.
(My answer) They're called lurkers :-)

7. I don't like him so will not answer.
(My answer) Yes, that happens.

I know No5 gets up my nose, as I get a lot of questions off list, and after
digging data out and replying get no answer, I would say now 50% cannot be
bothered to even thank you.

(My answer) Kerry, I feel very strongly about this and I could not agree 
with you more on this one. Because my webpage is probably the best known 
(or only) one in South Africa I get 1 or 2 emails a week from people who 
have found "such and such" and engine and "where can they buy parts" or 
"how do they fix this" or "how much is it worth?". I always go to great 
lengths to reply and often take photo's or scan pages from manuals, supply 
links to sites that will help them and suchlike. Many replies take me an 
hour or two to do. Then the "low life" bastard does not even have the 
courtesy to reply and say "Thank you". Who the hell does he think he is (or 
who I am). I have been seriously considering putting a BIG notice on my 
webpage using UGLY language to tell these "Arseholes" where to get off. 
(Apologies to you and the list for the heavy language but I feel very 
strongly about this.) I will go out of my way to help anyone - is a small 
"thank you" note too much to expect in return ?

These lists were set up to help others are we losing that.
(My answer) I do not really think so but maybe we are becoming a bit lazy 
in this respect. For my part I do not think "we are losing that" - as 
mentioned, I have received so much help and knowledge from list members. 
Unfortunately, as a newbie, I cannot contribute much but I sure as hell 
have learnt a lot.

Thanks to all list members for your help and friendship.

Keep the revs up (or down)
Jerry Evans
Near Johannesburg in Sunny South Africa.
Etched Brass Engine Plates made to order:
<www.oldengine.org/members/evans/plates/index.htm>  




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