[SEL] white metal for bearings (Babbitt)

Tod Engine Foundation rowlands1941 at roadrunner.com
Fri Jul 11 05:07:43 PDT 2008 

Joe,

I have thought of that type of repair for the lower portions of the main 
bearings.  They do look in fairly good shape but have quite a wavy surface 
that I am sure drastically reduces the contact area.  It would probably take 
close to 100 lbs. of tig welded Babbitt just to build those areas up.

The connecting rod bearings, however, have cracked quite extensively.  I've 
pulled chunks of the Babbitt off of those, and I am afraid the only solution 
is to repour them.  As much as I don't want to do that, its inevitable as 
once I put those rods back in nobody is ever going to pull them back out 
again, and this engine is going to run.

About the S&K stop valve.  I have a set of brass hang tags that came from 
our engine's stop valve.  They were not on the engine when we got it, but 
one day while dismantling it in the steel mill, an older man drove up and 
handed them to me.   He had worked at that plant and when it shut down he 
took the tags as a souvenir.  When he saw an article in the paper about our 
efforts he decided to give the tags back to the engine.

Just last month I acquired most of the parts to another S&K stop valve from 
a big blooming mill engine that is being scrapped.  Two flyball governors, a 
28" dia. pulley that clamped to the end of the crankshaft (yep it had a 28" 
crankshaft), associated brackets and the trip mechanism off of the main 
steam valve.  I couldn't get the valve, its bigger than I am.

I plan to set this up at the museum as a working display.  I'll drive the 
setup with a DC motor so I can vary the speed.  Visitors will see the 
flyballs pull out until the overspeed trips a contact and then watch as the 
coil deenergizes and a weight trips the stop valve.

Come to think of it that might make a neat display to bring to Coolspring 
some year!  That along with some 66" dia. piston rings ought to attract some 
attention!

Thanks

Rick Rowlands
Executive Director
Tod Engine Foundation
"Preserving Youngstown's Steel Industry Heritage"
2261 Hubbard Road
Youngstown, OH  44505
330-272-4089
www.todengine.org


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Prindle" <joe_prindle2001 at yahoo.com>
To: "The SEL email discussion list" <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [SEL] white metal for bearings (Babbitt)


> You might want to consider building up your bearings with additional 
> babbit instead of repouring.
> WHen I was working on steam turbines at the papermill, we would keep a 
> spare set of babbit bearings for each turbine in stock. The problem was 
> that the bearings would not be needed unless one was found to be worn out 
> at overhaul, or failed in service. By that time, the journal was worn and 
> we would send the rotor to our machine shop to have a cleanup cut taken, 
> giving us a spare bearing that was too big. So, we would take babbit and 
> melt it and make long thin rods out of it, about 1/8" in diameter and then 
> tig weld it to the existing bearing to build it up and then finish it to 
> size in the vertical turret lathe. This was a method that we were taught 
> by General Electric as a bonfide repair, and it took a fraction of the 
> time and materials that would be required to repour the entire bearing. 
> Most turbine parts for our 1920's and 30's machines had a 12 to 16 week 
> lead time, so we were happy to have any parts, even if they needed rework 
> to use them. I would
> imagine that our bearings were of comparable size to yours, and if you 
> tried it and it didn't work out, you are not really out much.
> If you don't have a tig torch, there are a lot of really good tig welders 
> out there, and most of them seem to get off on a challenge.
> I thought I read somewhere that your engine uses a Koerting valve. I have 
> a tag off of a 12" Schutte-Koerting trip throttle valve from a mid 20's 
> 7500 KW GE turbine. If it sounds like something that you can use, let me 
> know.
> Joe
> Joe Prindle
> Baraboo, WI USA
> "Never pass up a bathroom, never waste a hard-on and never trust a fart" 
> Jack Nicholson, "The Bucket List"
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/10/08, Tod Engine Foundation <rowlands1941 at roadrunner.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> From: Tod Engine Foundation <rowlands1941 at roadrunner.com>
>> Subject: Re: [SEL] white metal for bearings (Babbitt)
>> To: "The SEL email discussion list" <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>> Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 8:44 PM
>> I just got a quote on genuine Babbitt at $12.58 per lb.
>> delivered.   I know
>> I'll have to repour the big ends of the Tod
>> Engine's connecting rods
>> someday, and each one takes 325 lbs. of the stuff.
>> Everything I've read says
>> to use no more than 50% old Babbitt when repouring, meaning
>> I will need
>> several hundred pounds of new Babbitt.
>>
>> I just wish we could spare the money to buy all of what you
>> have remaining,
>> but every penny we have has to go into putting our new
>> engine house building
>> up, and I don't even have enough to do that yet. ;-(
>>
>> Maybe if you still have it next year...
>>
>> Rick Rowlands
>> Executive Director
>> Tod Engine Foundation
>> "Preserving Youngstown's Steel Industry
>> Heritage"
>> 2261 Hubbard Road
>> Youngstown, OH  44505
>> 330-272-4089
>> www.todengine.org
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Judge Tommy Turnere"
>> <Lcjudge at scrtc.com>
>> To: "The SEL email discussion list"
>> <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [SEL] white metal for bearings (Babbitt)
>>
>>
>> > Peter,
>> >    I wished I had some way to get babbitt to you.  I
>> have some NOS Jackson
>> > Wheeler high speed nickel babbitt in about 3 lb
>> ingots.  I'd sell it to
>> > you
>> > for $5 / lb.  Its probably worth more than that for
>> scrap.  I bought about
>> > a
>> > ton of the stuff several years ago (didn't aim to
>> buy it but I made the
>> > guy
>> > an offer and he said "its yours".) I've
>> sold it to a lot of folks for one
>> > cylinders, Model T's and other applications.  All
>> that have used it are
>> > very
>> > pleased with it.  Here's what it looks like:
>> >
>> >
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/Lcjudge/Misc/photo#5160269484786225074
>> >
>> > Tommy Turner
>> > Magnolia, KY
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Peter Lowe"
>> <plowe at exemail.com.au>
>> > To: "Oldengine.org"
>> <stationary-engine at oldengine.org>; "ATIS"
>> > <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:27 PM
>> > Subject: [SEL] white metal for bearings (Babbitt)
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi All
>> >> I know we have been through this before, but I
>> just want to clarify a few
>> >> points.
>> >>
>> >> 1. What is the tolerance between the crankshaft
>> and the bearing ID. The
>> >> crankshaft is 1 1/2" dia. and the bearing is
>> about 4 1/2" long. How many
>> >> thou. do I allow.?
>> >> 2.  The oil groove in the bearing, should it be on
>> top of the bearing
>> >> where
>> >> the oil comes through and is there a need for one
>> on the bottom. The
>> >> bearings I took out of my vertical R&V also
>> have a groove around the end,
>> >> I
>> >> guess to hold the oil before it finally comes out,
>> if it does. Would you
>> >> try
>> >> and direct oil that comes to the bottom back into
>> the engine via a spiral
>> >> directional groove at the bottom of the bearing.
>> You might say, who cares
>> >> it
>> >> will not be run that often, but it is an exercise
>> for me in machining
>> >> also.
>> >>
>> http://www.oldengine.org/members/plowe/rv-engines/my_main_bearings.htm
>> >> There will eventually be a complete restoration
>> guide for the vertical
>> >> R&V
>> >> when I finally think of the format I want to use
>> at:
>> >>
>> http://www.oldengine.org/members/plowe/rv-engines/my_vertical_restoration.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The email reply below was from a bearing company
>> in Victoria, Oz, I bit
>> >> pricy on their metal or am I out of touch $$$$?
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Peter Lowe
>> >> R&V Engine Registrar
>> >> Australia
>> >> Ph: 61-266453455
>> >>
>> http://www.oldengine.org/members/plowe/rv-engines/rvpage.htm
>> >>
>> http://www.oldengine.org/members/plowe/rv-engines/rv-register.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>>Hi Peter
>> >>>
>> >>> Our recommended white metal is a stock line
>> called DSL, This is most
>> >>> suitable for high & low speed applications
>> & high load factors.
>> >>> Composition:
>> >>> SN - Tin           88.20%
>> >>> AG - Silver       0.10%
>> >>> CD - Cadmium 1.00%
>> >>> CU - Copper    3.05%
>> >>> NI -  Nickel      0 .15%
>> >>> SB  - Antimony 7.50%
>> >>>
>> >>> More important is that the oilways and
>> clearance are correct.
>> >>> If the finished bush is 1KG I would suggest
>> you make allowance for OD,
>> >>> ID
>> >>> & length finish machining.
>> >>> Price per Kilo is $42.50 plus postage.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards
>> >>> Ian Hill.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> SEL mailing list
>> >> SEL at lists.stationary-engine.com
>> >>
>> http://www.stationary-engine.com/mailman/listinfo/sel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1541 -
>> Release Date: 7/8/2008
>> >> 7:50 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > SEL mailing list
>> > SEL at lists.stationary-engine.com
>> > http://www.stationary-engine.com/mailman/listinfo/sel
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SEL mailing list
>> SEL at lists.stationary-engine.com
>> http://www.stationary-engine.com/mailman/listinfo/sel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SEL mailing list
> SEL at lists.stationary-engine.com
> http://www.stationary-engine.com/mailman/listinfo/sel
>

More information about the sel mailing list