[SEL] OT PA trip & fuel costs

bill at antique-engines.com bill at antique-engines.com
Thu Jun 7 09:09:33 PDT 2007


Yes - how many years was it before other car companies started
mass-producing 4x4 cars?

>From an Italian 4x4 web site:

American Motors introduced the innovative Eagle for the 1980 model year.
This was the world's first complete line (sedan, coupe, and station wagon)
of permanent automatic all-wheel drive passenger models. The new Eagles
combined Jeep technology with an existing and proven AMC passenger car
platform. They ushered a whole new product category of "sport-utility" or
Crossover SUV. AMC's Eagles came with the comfort and high level
appointments expected of regular passenger models and used the off-road
technology for an extra margin of safety and traction.

The Eagle's thick viscous fluid central differential provided quiet and
smooth transfer of power that was directed proportionally to the axle with
the greatest traction. This was a true full-time system operating only in
four-wheel drive without undue wear on suspension or driveline components.
There was no low range in the transfer case. This became the forerunner of
the designs that followed from other manufacturers. The automobile press
at the time tested the traction of the Eagles and described it as far
superior to the Subaru's and that it could beat many so-called off-road
vehicles. Four Wheeler magazine concluded that the AMC Eagle was "The
beginning of a new generation of cars."

The Eagles were popular (particularly in the snowbelt), had towing
capacity, and came in several equipment levels including sport and luxury
trims. Two additional models were added in 1981, the sub-compact SX/4 and
Kammback. A manual transmission and a front axle-disconnect feature were
also made available for greater fuel economy. During 1981 and 1982 a
unique convertible was added to the line. The Eagle's monocoque body was
reinforced for the conversion and had a steel targa bar with a removable
fiberglass roof section.
------------------------------------------
>From AMC historians:
AMC's chief Jeep engineer, Roy C. Lunn, began tinkering with a car based
four wheel drive set-up during 1972 3 years prior to Subaru's introduction
of its simplistic part-time 4wd system in 1975. Mr. Lunn felt that if
anyone was going to market a true full-time 4WD car it should be AMC who
had purchased Jeep in 1970. Contrary to what many believe, Mr. Lunn did
not intend to use much of the Jeep 4WD technology of the time in a car as
he felt it lacked the refinement needed for automotive use. In 1972 AMC's
Jeep Engineering department modified a 1972 Hornet into a all-wheel drive
car utilizing a specially contstructed "QT 1" straight thur drive transfer
case; a frame mounted Warner Gear Front axle; and Dana constant velocity
drive shafts. The finished prototype proved successful during subsequent
testing. However, gasoline shortages of the time precluded putting the car
into production (the whereabouts of this prototype is unknown). Retired
AMC chairman Gerry Meyers adds what his thoughts were when the prototype
was shown to AMC execs, "Our initial reaction to Lunn's concoction was,
'What the hell is it?"

In December 1976 and January 1977 the idea was revisited with the advent
of the viscous coupled transfer case recently developed by British based
FF Development. In February of 1977 a 1977 Hornet was shipped to England
to be reengineerd into a full-time four wheel drive car. Total development
cost for this (less the price of the car) was only $34,000! The finished
car was returned to the U.S. on June 15th of 1977. The production project
proposal to AMC execs was in their hands only two weeks later with
production scheduled to begin at the beginning of the 1980 model year.

Meyers, went on to say this took place in 1978, "After the Pacer, we were
looking for something fresh and cheap to produce. We had given up on
automobiles, and all of our creative efforts were focused on Jeep. So Dick
Teague [AMC design chief] took Lunn's 4WD car into the studio to improve
the cosmetics by adding plastic skirts around the wheel wells. With the
appearance issue solved, producing the Eagle was a no-brainer. We were so
hungry for something different that we didn't bother with market
research,"

Myers continues. "It was, for all intents, a no-cost experiment (AMC
needed to only sell 15,000 Eagles to recoup all develompent costs) that
began with three Concord body styles in 1980 and continued with two more
Spirit-based models in 1981. Sales were sufficient to make us glad we
built the Eagles, and our dealers -- especially those in Colorado and New
England -- were thrilled to have these unique products."

Lunn intitially chose the New Process (later New Venture) model 119
transfer case whose limited-slip function was provided by a viscous
coupling. This silicone-filled device provided controlled slippage for
smooth, dry-pavement cornering with the automatic locking necessary for
low-traction conditions. Lunn's other special feature was the Eagle's
independent front suspension, achieved by mounting the front differential
to the engine block and providing drive to the wheels via universal joints
and half shafts.

When the Eagle was introduced to the press this observation was made by
Popular Science writer Ed Jacobs in a 1979 article from the same magazine
wrote, " This new flock of off-road vehicles is designed for people who
want the all weather traction and safety of four wheel drives, but don't
like the truck-like four wheelers currently on the market. They ride about
as comfortably and handle about as well as any other cars their size on
the road. Off road they behave more like mountan goats as do their truck
like Jeep cousins."

AMC also owned a successful plastics division (I believe they sold to
Shell) and Wheel Horse products which sold to Toro. AM General was sold to
GM.

And if they are not popular, why are many companies getting BACK into
producing parts for these cars? I can buy NEW replacement parts for a
number of AMC cars now. Their auction prices are climbing quickly.
Ford and Chevy guys are now starting to buy them up. (making it harder for
US to get them) Reasons being "cool body styles" "solid designs" "clean
lines", etc.
Magazines of the times called the Javelin lines "cleaner, crisper and less
cluttered than Mustang".
Do take another look at some of the modern SUVs and it's pretty easy to
see where the styles came from. check out the names, too! Come on, Rogue,
SX4, Hornet, get real!

>   Ahead of their time in design??  You mean like the Pacer and the
> Gremlin???
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Gremlin
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Pacer
>
> BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!
>
> Party on, Dude
> http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/16/pf/autos/pacer_auction/
> --
> See ya,
> Kelley
>
>
>
> On 6/7/07 5:14 AM, "bill at antique-engines.com" <bill at antique-engines.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Because my AMCs will outlast his Jag.............. how many of those
>> will
>> be around in 37 years (my Jav with 350 hp), or even 27 years (the
>> Eagles,
>> rust-free) and can still buy off-the-shelf parts for them from Jeep
>> dealers.
>>
>> So they were 20+ years ahead of their time, and most of what Chrysler
>> did
>> in the 90's, even through to today, was already on the AMC tables when
>> they took over. The Magnum engines, for example, the "cab-forward"
>> design,
>> etc., all AMC designs. One of the main reasons for the take-over was
>> Chrysler needed ideas, wasn't able to come up with anything really new,
>> so
>> they bought AMC for their ideas, designs and technology, much of which
>> has
>> been released over the last decade. AMC designers worked on Jeep and
>> Dodge
>> truck designs for years after '87.
>> Much of what AMC had in the design room was too far ahead of time and
>> consumers wouldn't buy it back then, but will now.
>>
>> Compare their ideas and designs of the 70's/80's to today's cars - and
>> see
>> how many matches you can find.  Do some patent searches.......
>>
>>> But Dave....   Why would you want title to an AMC???
>>> --
>>> Kelley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/6/07 6:09 PM, "Dave Rotigel" <rotigel at alltel.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, like Ford has just introduced an amazing new type of vehicle,
>>>>> the
>>>>> cross-over utility vehicle! Gee, what was my 1980 EAGLE???
>>>>> And it got in the 20's for economy and was FULL TIME 4 wheel drive.
>>>>> Bil
>>>>
>>>> Big friggin deal. My wife's 4X4 2002 Jag X Type gets 26/28 mpg and
>>>> would
>>>> burn your silly ass EAGLE to ashes in the 1/4 mile!
>>>>          Dave
>>>> PS, Titles any time you would like to try it!
>>>>
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