[SEL] OT Virginia Uni Killings

[Steve W.]

peter ogborne wrote:
> Chuck and Reg .My opinions are as a complete out sider . I am trying not  to 
> be critical of the Laws that you have in the US . I can only repeat what I 
> hear and that is Virginia has very lax laws. It seems , so i hear that a 
> person can go to a gun show and buy  an assault rifle with out any 
> conditions. 

BULL. What you have heard is WRONG.

It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for 
civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. 
Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time 
their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, 
and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, 
and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and 
Firearms (BATF) in its National Firearms Registry.

To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is 
conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward 
violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two 
sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of 
the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and 
possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with 
public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a 
chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's 
residence.

Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of 
newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. 
Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are 
regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after 
the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.

Twenty-five states have no further restrictions on civilian ownership of 
machine guns (some require registration with the state) than what is 
required by federal law. Other states have either placed further 
restrictions or outlawed operable machine guns to civilians entirely. 
For further details see NRA state firearm law summaries.
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=60

The steps to take to purchase a LEGAL transferable machine gun are:

   Find a dealer locally who can assist you in all phases of the 
transfer. This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork: 
they should help you locate the gun if it isn't in stock and allow you 
to shoot the gun while your paperwork is being processed by the BATF 
(Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). It will usually take 4-6 
weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer if they don't 
already have it in stock (due to BATF paperwork delays).

   Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified 
finger printer, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures 
taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background 
check on you.

    Have your local dealer help you fill out an "Application for Tax 
Paid Transfer And Registration Of Firearm" for, known as a "form 4".

    You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) 
officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on 
the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for 
example. This is usually not a problem -- in machine gun friendly states.

   The form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and a 
$200 check (your one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATF 
and an approved tax stamp returned before you may take possession of the 
gun.  This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.

In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. 
(Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime 
[PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police 
departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: 
Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)

Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed 
with LEGALLY owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a 
law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 
1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman 
Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber 
submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. 
Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were 
sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine 
guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.

In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 
1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a 
"machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although 
there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were 
probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

     * Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not 
one was fully automatic.

     * A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during 
drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics 
Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 
1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

     * 16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area 
(1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics 
trafficking operations" were machine guns.

Want me to cite some more facts or will you admit your wrong?


If this is so then it is no wonder that there are crazys out
> there trying to emulate what they might see on TV . If this is what the law 
> allows then so be it and good luck to you in the US.
> To Reg ....if you want to go down the road that the US has followed what can 
> i say except that i hope not to be around.
> Chuck ,as for defending myself ,my wife ,my property yes up there with the 
> best of them ,I am not a shrinking violet.
> Peter Ogborne
> Little Grove ,Albany
> West Australia
> ''Heart of the Rainbow Coast ''
> jopeter at omninet.net.au 
> 
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> 

-- 
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Pacifism - The theory that if they'd fed
Jeffrey Dahmer enough human flesh,
he'd have become a vegan.