[SEL] Dogs on show grounds (OT?)now fences...again.

Wed Mar 23 15:38:46 PST 2005

Steve and Denise

I find that comment about a club only has one opportunity to run the
National.  Not so.  Our Canberra Club ran the event in 1995 and is scheduled
for it again in 2009 - State rotation and all that which was discussed in
Tasmania in 2001.  Whether we put in a bid is another matter.

As for your comment regarding lack of guidelines I can only assume you have
not seen the National Rally Rules.  They were originally going to be
guidelines however by a proposal put from the floor at the Henty National in
1999 the Association members, by majority vote, agreed to them being called
Rules.

You're right organisers of every National have made mistakes and will
continue to do so - it is only human nature, however in saying that I think
that once people get to an event the majority have a good time - but you
will always get a few whingers.

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven N Kitto" <sndakitto at rbm.com.au>
To: "The SEL email discussion list" <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [SEL] Dogs on show grounds (OT?)now fences...again.

> Ron,
>
> As a member of the Organising Club I noticed that some of those officials
> who were "enforcing" matters were not members of the Naracoorte Club.
>
> I think in this debate over Nation Rallies one thing that has come to my
> realisation is that any club only has one opportunity to run the rally.
> There are very few guidelines given by NHMA on how it should be done.
> NAracoorte made plenty of mistakes, as I bet every club who has previously
> run one did and so will those who run them in the future.
>
> In all this I have not found anyone that did not enjoy the experience.
> Steve and Denise Kitto
> 4 Fifth Ave
> Naracoorte
> South Australia
> Ph 08 87621147
>
> As water reflects a face, so a man's heart reflects the man.
> Proverbs 27:19
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Page" <page at velocitynet.com.au>
> To: "The SEL email discussion list" <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEL] Dogs on show grounds (OT?)now fences...again.
>
>
> > Well said Kerry.  Maybe it is time some of the NHMA members spent some
> time
> > on the committee (only elected for two years) and sent out the message
to
> > the club officials not to be so officious.  As you say we are only there
> to
> > enjoy ourselves.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kerry" <ozengine at optusnet.com.au>
> > To: "The SEL email discussion list" <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SEL] Dogs on show grounds (OT?)now fences...again.
> >
> >
> > > G'Day Ron and All
> > >
> > > With all due respect,
> > > > I am sure the insurer would use them for their benefit in the event
of
> > an
> > > > accident to the public.
> > > and
> > > > And if you want to put on a display without fencing go ahead, but
> until
> > > > they
> > > > put it in writing you wont be covered and because of this you will
not
> > be
> > > > allowed to show by the local Councils insurance requirement - not
the
> > NHMA
> > >
> > > WHO SAID?,  I am lead to believe the insurance person at the rally
> stated
> > at
> > > the Friday Night Meeting that the insurance would be honoured even if
> > there
> > > were no fences installed.
> > > We were told before the rally  if we had problems with insurance talk
to
> > > him,  he made the statement (of which I did not hear first hand but
> there
> > > was a major discussion by everyone on Saturday), now you are hiding
> behind
> > > "its Association Guidelines", I can ensure you, clubs are not using
them
> > as
> > > guidelines but RULES you must 100% abide by, and some of the safety
> > offices
> > > will make you believe it is the LAW, at Hayfield my transport wheels
was
> 2
> > > inches over the 1 metre line but the flywheel was a foot on the engine
> > side
> > > of the line I was ordered to move the transport 2" so it would be
> totally
> > 1
> > > metre from fence (other list members were present), this is just crap
> and
> > > the Guidelines, stupid club officials and Gestapo safety officers are
> out
> > of
> > > control.
> > >
> > > We have been constantly told by club and Association officials the OHS
> and
> > > insurance requirements drove the guidelines the way they were drafted,
> if
> > > you remember any of my posts last year they all had a common thread,
> that
> > it
> > > was not necessary the insurance requirements but the association
making
> up
> > > its own rules, if the statements of the insurance person is true then
my
> > > thoughts are correct.
> > >
> > > As I have said many times I have no problems with the fences only the
> > > Guidelines / RULES that have been enforced on us by people that should
> > have
> > > been looking after us for our enjoyment while running engines.
> > >
> > > In regards to the dogs I think we all know about Laws on unrestrained
> > dogs,
> > > but reading Reg's post he was chatted by a club official at a rally,
> what
> > > bloody right has any club official got to administer the LAW, what is
> > next,
> > > safety officers checking if our trailer is registered or not or if we
> had
> > a
> > > tetanus shot encase we touch our rusty iron.
> > >
> > > To finalise I think a lot of people attending rallies are fed up with
> > > officials hiding behind legal (OHS and Insurance) issues and not doing
> the
> > > best for the people that run engines at rallies
> > >
> > > Just my 2 bobs worth nothing personal
> > >
> > > While I am in the writing mood, I had a great time at Naracoorte, was
a
> > good
> > > rally but I was totally pissed off to start with, after driving 1400
km
> I
> > > arrived at 6.00 pm Thursday night still with several hours of light, I
> > made
> > > sure I was there Thursday as Friday was a run day for school kids, no
> > > problem just drove longer ot get there.
> > > Got to the gate to be told by some club official "Your too late come
> back
> > > tomorrow" what about unloading my engines first I said, I told you
come
> > back
> > > tommorow he said, no reason was given, as I departed I told him my
> bloody
> > > engines will stay in the trailer for the weekend, he just schrugged
his
> > > shoulders.
> > > Arriving Friday morning to unload I was told by some other club
official
> "
> > > you have half an hour to unload then get your car and trailer into the
> car
> > > park.
> > > I cannot believe the way some club officials carry on, it will be the
> last
> > > National I will take engines to as I dont need all the crap and
> importance
> > > clubs dish out to us that bring engines
> > >
> > > Kerry Morris
> > > Lithgow Oz
> > >
> > > > Hi Curt
> > > >
> > > > I don't know where people got the idea that the requirement for
fences
> > was
> > > > a LAW.  Our legislators have not made LAWS in this regard however
have
> > > > done
> > > > in other areas such as occupation and health.  We, private citizens,
> > even
> > > > if
> > > > we belong to a National body cannot make LAWS.  In the case of our
> > > > Association we have not even made RULES.  As I have stated before
that
> > the
> > > > Association has only issued GUIDELINES (there are reasons for this
> which
> > I
> > > > have explained before) for the conduct of an engine rally, National
or
> > > > otherwise.  These have no standing in LAW, however, in saying that,
I
> am
> > > > sure the insurer would use them for their benefit in the event of an
> > > > accident to the public.  The last insurance policy I looked at
> included
> > > > reference to the guidelines.  I have not seen the latest policy.
> > > >
> > > > In regards to your comment regarding laws about unrestrained animals
> > (read
> > > > dogs).  Yes the majority of councils if not all have laws regarding
> > > > unleashed dogs in public places and cleaning up their droppings as
you
> > go
> > > > a
> > > > long. In fact some councils provide bins and plastics bags for dog
> > owners
> > > > for this purpose.  It all stems from the number of dog attacks on
> humans
> > > > that we have had over the past few years, some resulting in death.
> And
> > > > the
> > > > other part is as a result of pedestrians stepping into the
droppings.
> > > > However you can be lucky my place backs onto a "free range" area and
> my
> > > > dogs
> > > > can run loose and, best of all, I don't have to carry plastic bags.
> > > >
> > > > While I have been writing this I notice that Reg has commented.  I
> agree
> > > > with you Reg.  I would like to see the Insurers put it in writing.
> Bet
> > > > they
> > > > don't.
> > > >
> > > > And if you want to put on a display without fencing go ahead, but
> until
> > > > they
> > > > put it in writing you wont be covered and because of this you will
not
> > be
> > > > allowed to show by the local Councils insurance requirement - not
the
> > > > NHMA.
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > >
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