[SEL] Re: Match start and shot gun shell start engines.

Curt curt at imc-group.com
Tue Nov 15 09:36:11 PST 2005


OK George, until you mentioned it I didn't realize there were two 
methods of shell start engines. So what I think I hear you saying is 
that 410 primer start engines are precharged with fuel and "tickled" 
with the 410 shell primer to start.

The Field Marshall tractor you mentioned....is this a gas burner or a 
diesel?
If a gas burner do you suck a charge in first? Or do you fire the shell 
getting the flywheel rotating and only then do you choke it to draw in fuel?

Is full shot gun shell starting used on both gasoline and diesel engines?

Curt Holland
Gastonia, NC

Best, George wrote:

>My impression of the match start engines, is that the match basically
>does the same thing as hand tripping an ignitor to start an engine.  All
>the match does, is ignite the charge in the cylinder.
>
>I would think the 410 shotgun shell primer is doing basically the same
>thing.
>
>The shotgun shell start on the Field Marshall is different in that a
>sufficient powder charge in the shell to spin the engine over several
>times is used.
>
>George
>
> 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: stationary-engine-request at oldengine.org 
>>[mailto:stationary-engine-request at oldengine.org] On Behalf Of Curt
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:44 AM
>>To: The SEL email discussion list
>>Cc: SEL (Oldengine.org)
>>Subject: Match start and shot gun shell start engines.
>>
>>Jim,
>>I have never had the pleasure of seeing a match start engine 
>>actually started. I did look over a large 25HP? Fairbanks in 
>>Georgia a few years ago that was match start. The owner 
>>explained the process exactly as you did. Hold the flywheel, 
>>hand pump the cylinder pressure up, and then light it off 
>>with the match.
>>Since you mentioned the shot gun shell starters, and 
>>questioned if they had enough uumph to bring it over, I have 
>>a question about those. When starting an engine or tractor 
>>with shotgun shell start, do you precharge the cylinder with 
>>a fuel charge? Does the shell actually provide the pressure 
>>to carry it all the way over, or is it only providing instant 
>>compression and firing a fuel charge in the cylinder to cary it thru?
>>Curt Holland
>>Gastonia, NC
>>
>>Jim and Diane wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I Have seen one several match start engines both of which were 
>>>Fairbanks-Morse.  A father son team had one at the Carson 
>>>      
>>>
>>Valley show 
>>    
>>
>>>several years ago and were starting it every hour or so.  
>>>      
>>>
>>Here is how 
>>    
>>
>>>it worked.  The flywheel was stopped slightly over TDC on the power 
>>>stroke and held there.  The other guy worked a hand pump on 
>>>      
>>>
>>the side of 
>>    
>>
>>>the engine that drew the air over a shallow pan of gas and then into 
>>>the cylinder through a check valve.  When the pump was 
>>>      
>>>
>>getting really 
>>    
>>
>>>hard to pump and the flywheel holder was beginning to strain.  The 
>>>match holder was pushed in with a whack and the engine went 
>>>      
>>>
>>chuff and 
>>    
>>
>>>began to run.  This engine was about 10 HP or so and was a 
>>>      
>>>
>>early engine although I can't remember the date.
>>    
>>
>>>The entire match assemble unscrewed from the side of the 
>>>      
>>>
>>head and was 
>>    
>>
>>>cleaned before start up.  Most of the match is cut off 
>>>      
>>>
>>leaving a very 
>>    
>>
>>>short piece that goes in the match holder which looked like 
>>>      
>>>
>>a piece of 
>>    
>>
>>>slotted tube.
>>>
>>>I talked with one of them and he said they also had trouble getting 
>>>matches as he didn't think they were still being made.
>>>
>>>I saw another FM match start at the Vista show which was 
>>>      
>>>
>>being started 
>>    
>>
>>>the hard way by pulling the flywheel through.  The match start was 
>>>missing and he had made a shotgun adapter that held a blank 
>>>      
>>>
>>410 shotgun 
>>    
>>
>>>shell.  I assume that the blast from the shotgun shell is enough to 
>>>push it through a complete cycle.  Maybe next time it will 
>>>      
>>>
>>be done this 
>>    
>>
>>>way and I can see how it works.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>    
>>
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