[SEL] RE: Dogs on show grounds....Now Insurance in the U.S.

[Andy Glines]

>   12. Re: Dogs on show grounds (OT?)now fences...again. (Curt)
>Message: 12
>Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:59:56 -0500
>From: Curt <curt at imc-group.com>
>Subject: Re: [SEL] Dogs on show grounds (OT?)now fences...again.
>To: The SEL email discussion list <sel at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>Message-ID: <4242D5EC.4050701 at imc-group.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Peter,
>In the States there are no federal laws saying that a public event has
>to be covered by liability insurance. To my knowledge there are no
>states with such laws in place either. In fact some states have passed
>laws stating that for many public events, the organizers cannot be held
>liable for injuries. In particular equestrian events.
>
>In the States as a club (or an individual) you would be free to put on
>an event without liability insurance. You are free to take your chances
>that no one will be injured. You are free to take your chances that if
>someone is injured they will not sue you. You are free to take your
>chances that if you are sued, the jury will not award damages to the
>injured, for which you or the club would be responsible.
>
>In my opinion, for any public event of any significant size one would be
>nuts to assume such risk, but none the less you are FREE to make that
>decision.
>
>Once one decides he needs to insure his public event, he contacts
>several private insurance companies and requests quotes to provide
>liability insurance. The one buying the insurance decides how much
>insurance they wish to buy. If they want they can buy as little as
>$100,000 of insurance. I'd venture a guess that many buy $1 million
>dollar policies.
>
>For certain the agents selling the insurance know nothing about the
>hobby and you will never see an insurance booth set up at a show. They
>really don't care. They are simply assuming a risk for public injury for
>a specific period of time, independent of the event. It could be a
>concert, a car show, an engine show, etc.
>The only hiccup was a few years ago after the Medina, OH steam traction
>engine explosion. It was nearly impossible to purchase liability
>insurance for the first couple of years after that accident if you were
>going to have steam at your show. Now that all states are up to snuff
>and have annual boiler inspections in place, the insurance companies are
>beginning to insure shows that have steam again.
>
>What I gather has happened in Oz is that the insurance conglomerate has
>lobbied your legislature to put into place laws that demand liability
>insurance for all public events. Whether or not this was the best thing
>for Oz is yet to be determined, but it is undeniable that it is a
>collusive effort to extract dollars from each and every person, and to
>spread the results of law suits amongst the entire populous. But that is
>the essence of socialism isn't it!
>Mind you this is not a slight against Oz. My observations of the
>wonderful people of Oz is that everyone seems happy and content.
>However, to someone with the _freedom_ to make the choice about
>insurance, your system seems intrusive, coercive, and imposing. Everyone
>in Oz shrugs this off saying it is only $15 a year, so what! It works
>for you. It is simply a different system.
>
>Curt Holland
>Gastonia, NC
You make some pretty good points here Curt.  I like how you explained the 
differences between the way that it is done in OZ vs the way its done in the 
U.S.  You are right that most shows go out an get liability insurance for 
their own protection.  We rent the fairgrounds for the SIAM show.  Part of 
the lease agreement is that SIAM must provide an insurance policy naming the 
fairgrounds as an additional insured.  I want to give those of you seeking 
insurance a little tip.  Single event insurance is expensive and difficult 
to get.  It is easier & cheaper to get a policy that covers your club for 
all club activities for the entire year.  I found this out last year when I 
had to find a new carrier for the SIAM show.  Make sure that your agent 
knows that you are looking for a full year policy and not event insurance.  
I can't think of a reason a club wouldn't want the full year policy anyway.  
I also made the agent aware of all of the activities that we have.  I told 
him about the sawmill, car show, tractor rodeo......  I didn't want there to 
be any "gottchas" if there were an accident.  This year we will have a mock 
race featuring Model A racers as part of the car show.  When the idea was 
presented I first called our insurance agent and cleared it through him.
BTW. Curt, I wanted to clarify your point about boiler inspections.  Not ALL 
states require boiler inspections.  I know that there is no inspection 
required in IN and I don't think that KY has it either.  Our neighbor to the 
west, IL, probably has the most throrough, state sponsored, inspection 
anywhere.  I have reservations about government run inspections anyway.  
When was the last time that gov't did a better job of anything than a 
private entity would have.  I will concede the activities of roadbuilding & 
law enforcement.  The road building efforts near Evansville may prove me 
right though.  Relying on gov't to tell us a boiler is safe breeds 
complacency.  I shouldn't look to someone else to tell me that my machine is 
safe rather I should KNOW that it is through my own inspection.  I feel that 
it is the responsibility of the of each show to make sure that the machines 
in attendance are safe.  I don't think that you will find a better 
inspection program than the one used by the Pioneer Engineers at Rushville, 
IN.